German gun makers marks and proof marks book

At present, these include austria, belgium, chile, czechoslovakia, finland, france, germany, hungary, italy, republic of ireland, spain and the united kingdom. Many papers and books have been written on this subject, but probably the most. Proof the testfiring of a gun with an extraheavy load, at an official establishment, to verify the safety of a gun, which is then marked with formal stamps showing, among other things, the loads for which it is intended. This book contains english translations of the actual regulations issued by the german authorities from the imperial and weimar eras, and is an invaluable source of information about the often.

Luger gunsinvestment grade collectible german lugersphoenix. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. Apr 12, 2020 proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after manufacture to show that the weapon is safe for use with the ammunition for which it was designed. Luger gunsinvestment grade collectible german lugers. He came to america and established his own business in genoa, new york early in the 20 th century. Porcelain plates, antique dolls, steins german beer mugs with lids, glassware, flatware, silverware and guns all have distinctive markings and manufacturers. Do not use any information on these pages without checking if the information is correct. This family of gun makers upholds the german gun making tradition although they served their apprenticeships in ferlach, austria. Gerhard wirnsberger has written the standard directory of proof marks. Collectors who spend enough time around european firearms will often notice that the guns are littered with a variety of odd markings, letters, and other stamps that seem like some sort of. Proof marks ballistics bev fitchetts guns magazine. Plate of proof marks english proofmarks london proofmarks. Guns and rifles built in germany and the german principalities before the 1890s typically did not carry proof marks, but the 1891 proof law grandfathered these arms by mandating that they be submitted to the proof house and marked with a crownoverv, the v standing for vorrat or on hand.

The proof you are looking at is the nazi swastika, with two german army acceptance stamps, one on either side. F the rules, regulations and scales now in force under the principal act are the rules, regulations and scales which were approved by. I have a colt 1902 made in 1904 that has very small crown over v marks on the left side of the slide and frame and small crown over v and crown over cp. Had i not loaned out my proofmark book, id try to help. They do, however, form a very valuable aid to the forensic. For example, on old remington gun made with wooden buttstocks, there are old screws that are sometimes marked with makers marks or symbols used by the company as a mark. A number of other countries have also established their own proof houses and by agreement at consular level, reciprocal arrangements have been made for their proof marks to be mutually accepted. Proof mark circa proof house type of proof and gun since 1952 ulm since 1968 hannover since 1968 kiel w. In general the importation of foreign arms, bearing no proof marks or bearing marks not now recognised is an offence, unless those arms are submitted to a proof house within 28 days of arrival.

Look closely at the parts that hold the gun together. In an other book of 19, also amberg is mentioned thanks vlim. Will you ever see an eagle n proof mark and a crown u proof mark on the same pistol or only one or the other. While there, you can also purchase a copy of a good book on proof marks. From the standard directory of proof marks, by gerhard wirnsberger, isbn. The chamber marks on an imperial gewehr 98 manufactured in a government arsenal are limited to a crown, the name of the arsenal which made the rifle, and the date the rifle was manufactured.

Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service the drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information. Need help with proof marks british militaria forums. Proof marks, date codes, and german firearms the bulk of the proof stamps on this walther ppks. Definitive proof and definitive proof on guns in final state together with crowned b 8. They built gund from scratch on a few old machines formerly from a maker in suhl and on the most modern equipment. Manufacturing marks are key to providing proof of authenticity to any collector of antique items made in germany. Jan 05, 2011 since the german proof testing standard was so similar to the english standard, the german authorities automatically approved any firearms with english proof marks with no further testing, but rejected any firearms with belgian proof marks until they were reproven in germany. You need to identify all of these marks to help determine the identity of a german luger 761b or any other luger model.

The buttplate or buttstock is the section often stamped with a maker s mark or name. Ive added some codes found in folke myrvangs book mg34mg42 german universal. The thunderbird, if very small, could be a waffen amt which would make it german, and is an inspectors mark. It also has the nazi insignea german eagle above swastika proof marks next to the waa140 marks and one can also be seen on the barrel. Proof masters in london and birmingham can be contacted at the addresses below. I am confused about how the british proof marked guns not made in england. Consult a luger pistol or german military weapons identification and price guide book for a list of proof symbols. Proof marks, date codes, and german firearms international. Officially, these markings are known as proof marks or proof stamps. They have all the normal acceptance and proof marks of the army p. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information. Court gunsmith wilhelm forster and gunmaker johann jakob reeb. Proof marks are usually found on the underside of the barrels, and if a gun has german proof marks and was made in 1892 or later, you know that the gun was proof tested in germany.

Proof mark circa proof house type of proof and gun since 1950 e. The reason for the very few proof houses is very simple. He took orders for a great variety of hunting guns and had most of them made in germany, mostly in suhl. Proof marks comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident.

This is a recording of a workshop given at the 2014 afte association of firearm and toolmark examiners conference in seattle, on the subject of proof marks and other identifying marks on. The wwii german navy obtained their pistols through the army. Welcome thank you for visiting our online listing of manufacturers identifying marks, referred to more commonly as proof marks, arsenal or inspector marks. Pair of queen anne flintlock pistols by james freeman, circa 1720. Fire selector marks kalashnikovpattern weapons central lower origin 1 albania 2 albania bulgaria 3 4 china 5 6 china 7 8 egypt egypt russian receiver9 germany gdr hungary 10 11 iraq 12 north korea poland 1 annotation on an albanian akm. Official guide to gunmarks 2nd and 3rd editions by robert balderson. List of world war ii firearms of germany wikipedia. In addition to all the other marks, the liege bank of proof also had the controller of proof stamp the gun. These proof houses were only needed for proofing civil guns.

Information courtesy of the blue book of gun values by s. According to this article the location of manufacture is actually supported by the definitive proof mark of the eagle over the n on various parts. Arms and shooting technical guide for the order police 1943 german arms and. Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have. The proof mark indicates it was proofed by the weipert proof. The next major milestone for winchester came in 1903, when the company introduced the. The manufacturers mark, production year, letter following or below the serial number and proof marks help narrow down the identity of a specific luger model.

Proof marks, codes and markings on gun barrels and receivers proof marks. G is the type bullet, it was proofed with, probably round nose jacketed, and the gr. This book contains english translations of the actual regulations issued by the german authorities from the imperial and weimar eras, and is an. If you look at the images above, the german proof marks show that two proof tests were done. Gun barrel and receiver codes, markings and proof marks. Unfortunately i cannot find my reference of german proofs. Two examples of proof marks are a starburst and an eagle with letters or numbers beneath.

Luger proofacceptance mark identification guide 18981945. The proof and testing of firearms birmingham gun barrel. Their served his apprenticeship under his father and just recently became a master. Is this different than the crown u proof mark, or the same thing. The table below can be used to see if your gun was proofed in london or birmingham. It has most major makers proof marks in it and should be in the reference section of your local library, or one very similar. German hunting guns of the golden era safari press. Proof marks are as varied as the types of guns made. Proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after. To my knowledge the belgians were the only ones who identified the controller. Marks on the gun indicate that it was used by german mercenaries during the american revolution. German police unit marks, 19201937 old military markings. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers. The majority of marks will be found on the barrel flats, though early guns may have stamps on the tubes, under the forend.

German proofmarks spanish armourer s and proofmarks other french towns had their special marks, such as parisa cipher of e. Was replaced 1912 by no 17 for nitro proof, but was still valid until 1939 as final black powder proof. Ansorg berlin marked gun has german proofs on the krupp barrel flats but a peron with an s and a star above on the action flats. Ive revised the belgian maker s and proof marks album to make thing a bit easier, with the essential illustrations much larger. The elg proof mark makes it a belgian gun, but i am having trouble getting a date range. Mck tradename and abbreviation tor mckeowns guns on italian shotguns. The following is an extensive collection of european pistol makers and armorers marks including british, french, spanish, german and austrohungarian. Marks applied to eastern european, formerussr and chinese. Rules, regulations and scales, birmingham gun barrel proof. West german proof marks 194519681971 west germany started gun manufacturing 1951 after the second world war.

Anyone collecting european firearms needs this book to answer many questions about the guns they own. Proof marks on it includes the nazi insignia, cgn 42, and waa920. The proof system was more or less stepped back to the laws of 1939. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such guns are unsigned with no sure way to identify the maker. You local library might have the book gun marks by robert balderson. There are three periods in the german proof system, divided into two countries.

This is a discussion on proof marks and made in germany within the xseries, sport, mastershop pistols forums, part of the sig sauer pistols category. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service. Alteration to or the forging of proof marks is a more serious offence. Four stage canon barrels, london proof marks and makers mark stamped under the trigger guard finialmore. Look very carefully because the caliber markings on these guns is usually 8. Marks applied to eastern european, formerussr and chinese weapons i. After about 1924 the names are pretty solid, before that it is any ones guess. Theres a breif primer on proof marks, that may be of help.

Are police banners marked with the crown u, the en, or other proof. German, suhl 1st black powder proof for smooth bored barrels since 1950 e. For corroboration, crossreference with the proof house controllers mark. Mca tradename used by steyr daimler puch on rifles made in steyr, austria. A sub machine gun used by german paratroopers and the soviet union suomi kp31. The standard directory of proof marks book is my favorite although it has the least amount of info. I have been unable to find much info on either rifle and in my attempt to research i purchased the following. How to find markings on antique gun parts gone outdoors. Another mark mr can be seen on the left side trigger guard. And even if youre already familiar with proof marks, maybe this article can broaden your knowledge and teach you something new. How to identify a german luger 761b gone outdoors your. German wwii heerswaffenamt inspectors mark for the spanish astra models 300 and 600, the star model b, the french model 1935 a, the unique models 17 and kriegsmodell and the mab model d. To the best of our knowledge, all the examples shown are original pre1945 manufacture.

Proof markscomparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. Ive added some codes found in folke myrvangs book mg34mg42 german universal machineguns. Sample photos of their layouts are at the bottom of the page. German wwii heerswaffenamt inspectors mark on arms produced at mauser werke ag, berlin borsigwalde, germany. Mckeowns guns importer of italian shotguns in pekin, illinois since 1970. We have provided you with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information. The barrels were made by krupp, but that is not anything special since krupp was selling barrels separately to various gun makers through out the world. Mb date code on german m98 rifles with swv marks signifying that it was made in late 1944 early 1945. I donat know, how long amberg worked and when berlin was established. The proof master the proof house 48 commercial road london e1 1lp united kingdom. Amongst proof marks are codes enabling one to determine the date of manufacture of many guns.

If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. A book containing all the currently valid, foreign and uk proof marks, is available at a small charge from the london and birmingham proof houses. They are often found in combination with proofmarks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. To my knowledge, there isnt a book out that covers european proof marks. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proofmarks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. At phoenix investment arms we offer only the finest premium investment grade german lugers. James whisker and various coauthors list amercian makers by specific region. Before the matchlock, guns were fired by holding a burning wick to a touch hole in the.

All of the preceeding notwistanding, there is a great deal of variation in proof marks of german guns and entire books have been written on the subject of proofs. The proof master the gun barrel proof house banbury street birmingham b5 5rh united kingdom. Does someone have good pictures of crown u proof mark s. The standard directory of proof marks book is my favorite although it has the least. Jun, 2014 ill restrict myself therefore to saying something about gun making in belgium and offering some proof marks. Appendix 6 gun marks gun marks can include proof marks, but for this chapter, they are restricted to manufacturer s marks, inspector s marks and arsenal marks. A complete reference offering new, important features. I did a bit of research on the internet, and couldnt come to a good conclusion, but i know there are people that really know their proof marks. German wwii heerswaffenamt inspectors mark assigned to albrecht kind, berlin, germany. A single letter, either roman or greek, upper or lower case, underlined or not. Under the slide on the right side is another mark with three lines and 359 under it. Our clients are investors, collectors, and those who simply want to shoot one of the worlds most recognized and coveted hand guns. Oct 25, 2012 it also has the nazi insignea german eagle above swastika proof marks next to the waa140 marks and one can also be seen on the barrel. With so little information yet discovered about so many german makers, a working knowledge of proof marks can be your guide to the hidden histories of german sporting arms.

It will tell you the era when the gun was made and. Many old guns may have been reproved once or more, often in a different proof house from the original one. Provisional proof is only for shotgun barrels in the early stages of manufacture. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in german small arms markings from authentic sources by j. How to identify german manufacturing marks our pastimes. Also, the standard directory of proof marks by gerhard wirnsberger.

Proof mark circa proof house type of proof and gun since 1951 brescia provisional proof for all guns since 1951 gardone provisional proof for all guns. Cornell publications worlds largest old gun catalog and manual reprinter old gun reference books covering many years and gun manufacturing firms. Weapons listed were made by or for germany and do not include captured foreign equipment. All of this would be on the right side of the slide. Small arms makers by gardner lists both american and european makers. And two world war and the development of firearms over the. Any german gun or rifle carrying a crownoverv dates to 1891 or earlier. Serial numbers were often repeated on thousands of luger pistols. The property mark is preceded by an o for ostee baltic sea or n for nordsee north sea fleets.

Speaking of books, dieter marschalls walther pistols models 1 through p99 does a nice job of detailing the various proof marks on the p. Though the european tradition of compulsory proofing and subsequent marking dates back to the english gun barrel proof act of 1868, germany did not adopt a similar law until 1891. There are many thousand of these and it would take several books to even begin to list them. Luger proofacceptance mark identification guide 18981945 this is one of a series of identification guides for small arms. If youve heard someone mention proof marks or date codes when discussing a sig sauer pistol, but werent quite sure what those were, then the goal of this article is to bring you up to speed. It will tell you the era when the gun was made and where. The thunderbird, if very small, could be a waffen amt which. Proof marks are usually found on the underside of the barrels, and if a gun has. Chamber markings on a commercially manufactured gew98 will have the name of the commercial firm and the date the rifle was made.